how do we tell?
I’m no stranger to challenges, both in ministry and in life.
I’ve roughed the stormy seas of tight finances. I’ve braved long seasons of everything possible going wrong in every way possible.
I’ve endured numerous devastating fires on our mission base. I’ve watched a tornado lift the roof right off of my house. While I was in it. Twice.
I’ve faced countless health issues, lost loved ones, sat broken-down on the side of the road more times than I can count.
I’m not oblivious to the schemes of the devil.
I know the enemy attacks hard on the front lines.
I also know God uses the situations we face to guide and shape us.
He disciplines us, redirects our paths, and goes to great lengths to get ourattention at times.
And so today I find myself wrestling.
I’m coming up with more questions than answers, though.
A barrage of negative/painful/stretching circumstances could be an attack we should stand against in faith. Or it could be God’s way of “closing a door”, turning us around, or shifting the direction of our path.
How do we tell the difference?
Wish I were sitting with you in silence, if, for nothing else, than to communicate that I hear you. And I’m praying with you.
@maryjohess says:
I don’t know how we tell. I wish I had some sure-fire answer.
All I know is this: All things work together for good to them that love God – to those who are the called according to His purpose. (Rom 8:28).
I cling to the fact that whether it be an attack or God closing a door – it doesn’t take him by surprise.
Probably not much help in the answer dept for you. Sorry. :(
What if it’s both?
:)
@gritandglory says:
what does that really mean? how can it be both?
Couldn’t God allow an attack from the enemy in our lives to also be a closing door? I’m not trying to be facetious. I think that sometimes (maybe rare?) God is actually at work (even if it’s just the work of allowing us to grope for Him) in the situations that we think God could never work in. That doesn’t mean that he orchestrates those attacks, merely that He remixes them for the good of those who love Him.
I don’t know, I was just thinking out loud with my question to your question.
:)
@gritandglory says:
i agree wholeheartedly. the part i’m wrestling with is this: when faced with an extreme hardship, do we rebuke the devil or take it as a hint from God?
maybe your answer will still be “both”. ;)
I really think some times it’s both.
I lean towards both, myself…
@atangie says:
thems the questions I am not so sure I want the answer to.
I’ve wrestled with this issue as well. It can be disheartening to not be able to discern. However, I lean on the verse that All things work together for my good—-that way it doesn’t matter who it is coming from—it is meant for my good. God is in control of all circumstances and whether he performs them or allows them, they are always for our good. I hope you, too, can find rest in that.
BTW, I’m heading to the States (should volcanic ash not hinder any longer). Maybe I’ll run into you :)
@gritandglory says:
shoot me an email and let me know where you’re headed! would be great to meet up if we end up in the same place at the same time!
@elainaavalos says:
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve wrestled with this same question. Even recently. I thought for SURE I was supposed to go back to school in the fall. I mean I was certain. Everything was going along as planned and then WHAM out of nowhere, all kinds of craziness happened.
I don’t know that I have a complete answer even now about what is going on. But the way I see it working is that sometimes God waits to act. And while He does, the enemy shows up and starts messing with crap, maybe trying to sell us lies. Or maybe meddling a little with what’s already going on.
God sometimes tarries. Sometimes, it’s not that He’s not in a situation, it’s that it’s not time for Him to make His move. Sometimes He really is in the midst of a painful situation or the roadblock is there for a reason. Sometimes, it’s so HE can move it. Sometimes, it’s because He wants us to go around it. But the only way we figure it out is to just wait it out with Him. Reading about Lazarus today and Jesus waiting to act even though it caused His friends pain was a tough pill to swallow, yet somehow completely comforting. Because we cannot possibly go wrong if we do the better part and sit at His feet. Cannot. Go. Wrong.
If you don’t own it, you might be encouraged by the devotional Streams in the Desert. There’s a TON in that about this kind of thing. Also, if you don’t own “Having a Mary Heart in a Martha World” go to B&N and read chapter 8. I kid you not. I read that chapter today and it rocked my freaking world for the reasons I mentioned above. I was kind of dreading reading this book in my small group. But wow, even if I only read it for that chapter, it’s so worth it.
Sorry this is so long!
@gritandglory says:
love all your thoughts here, elaina! and the story of lazarus is such a good reminder about God’s timing being totally different than ours.
i’m definitely intrigued about chapter 8 in the mary/martha book. i might need to slip into a barnes & noble somewhere…
Oh my sweet mercy, are you sure we are not twins living the same life. I have so struggled with the same questions.
I had to give up on the “whys” a long time ago and just realize that God is good all the time and all the time God is good.
@moweezle says:
Great Questions Lece!!! I will agree with the “both” answers but then with a little bit of a twist. First, I think no matter what the outcome is we should stand against it in faith. Any scheme of the enemy deserves our faith, its just what we’re putting our faith in. I think if we put our faith in the outcome of God’s will, whether it is what we want/expect or not, we will come out on top. Maybe God will use the situation to mold and shape us like you said, and maybe its a way for him to close the door. Either way, with both outcomes, our faith will be strengthened if we put in in Him and he gets us though it.
I think many of us (me included) tend to focus on the end product rather than the process he takes us through in the middle of it. No matter what, He will take care of us in the end….open door or closed one.
Just my thoughts….. love you!!!!!
@moweezle says:
ps. and how do we tell the difference??? Honestly, I think sometimes we won’t know until the very end of the fight when all is said and done. If we knew in the middle, we wouldn’t need any faith to get us through it. And then there are other times when God makes it clear to us that doors are closing. Tricky matter, eh??? I love how God loves to mix it up in our lives just to keep us on our toes ;) hehehehe
@gritandglory says:
i’m with you, mo! so many times i find myself needing to realign my faith to trust in who God is rather than what He can do.
Subtle but HUGE difference. Maybe not so sublte, I guess.
@kedamak says:
I have no answers because I wrestle with the same thing. My heart struggles to see God in those moments when it seems as if all hell is breaking loose around me. Believing God is present in those moments when grief is so strong, and the pain in my heart so tangible I can almost feel it breaking is incredibly difficult. But I was reminded recently of something I read in scripture a long time ago. In Psalm 18:11 it says in the NLT version “He shrouded Himself in darkness, veiling His approach with dense rain clouds.” I wrote in my Bilbe on the side of this scripture these words “even in the darkest hour we face God is there with us”. I read that again just yesterday and it helped me to remember that even in the pain and the darkness He is present. And then this morning I read Psalm 121; in the NCV it uses the phrase “The Lord guards” at least 5 times. Today my heart seems able to focus only on the closed door that is front of me but as I start my day I’m trying to see Him guarding me in this closed door; trying to feel Him in this dark hour I am in (which is about so much more than the closed door). It is not easy and I don’t offer these words as an answer to your question. Instead I hope they will offer some hope that even when it doesn’t make sense and we have no clear answers and the darkness is threatening to swallow us and we cannot feel Him, He is still present because the promise in Psalm 121 is that the One who watches over and guards us will NEVER sleep or slumber. Today my heart will try to cling to that promise. Sending you much love from the Carolinas.
@gritandglory says:
i love that we’re in the ring together. that passage in psalm 18:11 is so powerful. wow. pete wilson is in the middle of a series called “shattered dreams” that speaks right to all this. you should listen if you get a chance.
the plastic, happy christianity i was spoon-fed growing up told me that God’s in it when things are going great, but when they’re not, it’s because we don’t have enough faith. the Bible very clearly demonstrates that trusting and following God doesn’t equate to a life where everything goes okay. God is even in the most painful and difficult moments of our lives. i’m challenged to live with the confidence that He is with me.
I am so in the same boat (not quite…maybe different boat, same sea) so i’m checking out this series and well…its 9 minutes in and im already in awe in how its just ministering to me. once again, thanks for allowing God to you use, even in your distress to touch others.
much love.
“He shrouded Himself in darkness, veiling His approach with dense rain clouds”
wow. you just opened up God’s word for me this morning. WOW!
@gritandglory says:
i had a great conversation with my pastor about all this yesterday. we talked about seeking God’s face rather than His hand, and how God uses passion in our hearts (in the face of extreme adversity) to show us He’s not done yet.
i love what comes of our willingness to wrestle with tough issues of the heart.
you wrote that in my Bible.
@gritandglory says:
i did?
clearly, it’s a lesson i’m still learning!
I love that wording.
{now what rhymes with hand…}
Lyrics from an oooollllllldd song –
When you can’t feel His hand, trust His heart.
dagnabbit girlfriend, you did it again… just like the “authenticity in the rearview mirror” you have my brain cramped all morning :) love you for that!
Read this early this morn, tried to blackberry a response, realized my response was overly theological and trite and decided I needed to think about it some more.
Realized this: I have no clue sometimes if it is God or the enemy. That scares me.
Saw Mark Batterson’s evotional from yesterday: The blessings of God complicate our lives, but it’s a healthy and holy complication. Sin will complicate your life in negative ways. Blessings complicate our lives in positive ways.
Thought about my pastor’s comment a while back: “Not every opportunity presented in your path is from God”
Then thought about Judges 9:23 “God sent an evil spirit” and various other OT passages saying God sends both good and calamity.
Then thought about the NT passages saying “every good and perfect gift is from above”
Remembered my own “near miss” relationship where it was strife that broke it up (evil), but that it was right after that that I met John.
Like I said… brain is cramped. I’m sure you will get more response from me later tater :)
@gritandglory says:
i think my brain cramp was contagious!
Wow…that’s so hard. Mainly because sometimes it’s an attack, sometimes it’s God shutting a door, and sometimes it’s both. This may sounds trite, but whenever I’ve been in this situation, I ask God. I tell Him I can’t tell the difference and ask Him to show me if this is Him or an attack from Satan. And I ask Him how I should pray. I wish I could say He answered me right away, but it took a while. But I will say that He was always faithful to show me. Always.
@gritandglory says:
you know, that’s so key. i disregard too quickly the power of simply asking…
So many more questions than answers with this.
I am with others that it is both. Why? Because we can’t comprehend everything God is doing and when we try, we want to put what we’re facing in one category or the other but on this battle ground of earth, we won’t see the full picture until the dust settles.
I’ll throw this out there too. When my health problems started accelerating last fall, I had a couple mornings where I woke up in pain and could not fall back asleep. I was praying and asking God for the discernment to know if this was His test or Satan’s attack. The condition of my body is a gift in that through it I see the greater measure of His power in my life. At times, He does tell me to rebuke the pain because the enemy is trying to prevent me from doing something God has called me too. But often what I have to rebuke is not the evil of the physical condition, but rather the lies that Satan tries to feed me about who God is, God’s intent towards me, or my identity and worth. Example: the morning I woke up in excruciating pain, God’s question to me was this: What would the enemy love for you believe in this moment, and what would believing it do to you?
The enemy’s lie was that God did not love me enough or have the power to heal me or that I deserved the pain I was in because of someting I had done. The implications would have been devastating if I had chosen to believe the enemy in that moment. So God has allowed physical trials to draw me to Himself, and the devil tries everything to get me to believe lies.
So it’s both?
@gritandglory says:
wow. “What would the enemy love for you believe in this moment, and what would believing it do to you?” that is so so powerful.
@kedamak says:
That is an incredibly powerful statement. I will be chewing on that one for a long time. Wow indeed!
@johannaprice says:
Good question!
@PrudyChick says:
I’ve wondered the same thing. I think the only way to possibly go about it is pray Lord if this is from you help me to learn. Help me be a willing, flexible vessel. If this isn’t from you then help me to cling to you. To trust in you alone. Help me to resist the urges to get mad, depressed, and give in to the destructive ways of the enemy.
Now I’ve not actually done this. Hopefully I’ll remember next time I’m going through a trial/temptation.
I wonder about this all the time. I’ve had a rough go of it the last few years and I always tell myself God wouldn’t give me more than I could handle and obviously He has a hand in leading me in a different direction. But how do I know? Its a constant struggle for me between trying to let go and let Him lead and feeling low and unsure.
It seems to be harder on some days. Looking in the rear-view mirror of life, it is easier to see God and what He does. Looking forward and in the now…sometimes we have more questions than answers. Just remember, He has a plan, a perfect plan and you are in His grip…so need to hang on!
@mandythompson says:
I’m gonna have to ask my man about this one… Because I know the weight of your words. I don’t take this question lightly.
@gritandglory says:
i’m interested to hear drew’s thoughts. (and yours.)
@mandythompson says:
Here’s what Drew says:
Hi Alece–I guess first of all I want you to know that we’re both hurting for you and for Thrive right now. I hope you know we’re here praying for you and standing with you.
For what it’s worth here’s my take. The enemy opposes good, Biblical, fruit-bearing activities. We’re supposed to fight him, and by the Spirit we can win and keep going even when he opposes us.
The Lord, on the other hand, does two different things. He opposes things that are not right and not honoring to him–that’s discipline, where we learn to listen more carefully to him and change our ways.
But he also sovereignly re-directs some activities that are good, Biblical, fruit-bearing things, because he has mysterious and better plans.
And we can try to fight God but we won’t win.
So I believe that the first thing to do when you’re facing this much opposition is to check and see that what you’re trying to do is a good, Biblical, God-honoring activity. Perhaps God is helping you to re-examine what you’re doing in terms of motives or means or people you’re working with, etc. There may be some things you haven’t seen before that need to be adjusted (Haggai is a great example of this kind of discipline). Keep seeking counsel and holding what you’re doing before Him.
On the other hand, if you stay convinced that what you’re doing is something God-honoring and Scriptural, keep going!! I don’t ever see God in Scripture being angry with someone for trying to do a good thing. He just stops them and re-directs them. And the good thing about that is that when the Lord is the one doing the re-directing, He’s going to get his way. We can’t stop what he’s doing.
On the other hand, if the opposition is from the enemy then our prayers and perseverance will honor God, and we’ll prevail, to his glory.
So long story short, opposition should force us to our knees, to check that what we’re doing is morally right, Biblical, and honoring to God inside and out. If it is, roll on and trust that opposition from the enemy fails but opposition from God wins (and turns us into a new path of grace).
I pray that God would help you discern what’s happening, and give you the grace to walk in victory, Alece.
d
I love what Drew had written here. As I have been reading your post and all the comments, I keep thinking about the e-devotional I get from Elisabeth Elliot. Today’s portions spoke to this very issue. What she share had to do with idea that if you believe that it is God leading you to do something, then you continue with that thing until He shows you differently. Even if it is the wrong thing, He honors your desire of your heart to be obedient, the fact that you moved forward believing that you were doing what He was leading you to do.
If your heart is to please Him and to do what He desires, He WILL be faithful to guide you – thru clarity of mind, circumstances, wise counsel, etc. However He directs, you can trust that He will.
And when you feel overwhelmed by all that waits to be done…(I really like Elisabeth Elliot, who says…) Just do the next thing. Whatever the next thing is, do that. No matter how much we like to think we can multitask, we can really only do one thing at a time anyway.
Love you, my friend! Praying with/for you!
Love and hugs from VA!
@pa3cia says:
what’s your mailing address? i wanna send you a CD called knowing the difference between storms in your life.
If I were to fly away on the wings of the dawn.
And settle down on the other side of the sea,
Even there Your hand would guide me,
Your right hand would grab hold of me.
If I were to say, “Certainly the darkness will cover me,
And the light will turn to night all around me,”
Even the darkness is not too dark for You to see,
And the night is as bright as day;
Darkness and light are the same to You…
All the days ordained for me
Were recorded in Your scroll
Before one of them came into existence.
His loving hand is in it all.
One way or the other, His plan will be done.
The day we took our son to stand before an earthly judge to tell us what his life would be like for the remainder of his time on earth, I had to stop. And realize. This too was written in His book before my son or I had even come into existence. And even in that dark place, God did not leave us. He sees in the dark. And He is working out all the details for His glory.
(And Satan, well, he can’t do anything without God’s permission…remember.)
I don’t think I answered the question…well, I did…just not clearly.
I believe it’s all God. All of it. Nothing is outside of His realm of power. If any situation has come to you, He is expecting to work in and through it. Have faith that He is greater and only desires your best good.
Sometimes, all we can do is stand…and let God speak. And even if we cave…like running away…or falling into a heap of tears…He is the shelter in our breakdown.
He will have His way.
I dunno. Sometimes God confuses the hell out of me.
For me, it’s about being quiet. And paying attention to that deep down in my gut that I know is Him, even when I don’t want it to be what He’s saying. I have to take my head out of it… I’m a thinker… I’m logical… I look at the angles…
… and then I shut up, get out of His way and ask Him to give me fortitude to keep stepping forward.
I have faith for you. I am praying for you. Storms happen… He is in the center of them. I promise.
@kamriereed says:
this is something I really struggle with. I think we just need to constantly block out what is logical or what our brain wants to do clear our thoughts and listen to the fatherly whisper of direction and encouragement
WHoa…once again, i relate totally! I am sitting in one of those moments now…so if you got answers…i’m listening! haha that would make my life so much easier! :)
I hear you. It’s hard to tell, sometimes. I know it must break His heart when I assume something that’s of the devil is from Him. But for sure, I’m learning that His definitions of “good” and “bad” don’t always line up with mine, either. In my experience, the “Oh, NOW I get it….” doesn’t come until waaaaaay on the other side of things – if at all.
All I can say is, if it’s God taking you in another direction, He’ll make it clear. In His time. I remember once, I was crying out to Him with my guts like never before, feeling like a baby whose wailing was being ignored by her Father. And then KABOOM the answer came in a way that wouldn’t have had anywhere near the same impact if He’d come a second sooner.
He is not ignoring your cries for clarity. Could He be fine-tuning you in ways only the hardest things can?
I cannot recommend more highly a book by Bob Sorge called The Fire of Delayed Answers.
Hi Alece,
Someone said…that the things that might break us are the same things that builds us. So…I guess…when the devil strikes…God gives more power to walk out…unquenched. I love Daniel’s story…and the den of lions.
God bless. I read your story…and I was truly amazed at your courage. God is good…in spite!
Blessings,
Gladwell